Aug 13, 2011 The number of frets I can put on will be 11 or 12 (14 counting frets 0 and 6.5). Treble string scale length: 21', Bass string scale length: 24'. The perpendicular fret will be fret 7 (which corresponds to Chromatic fret 12). I might move the perpendicular fret to fret 6 so I'd have 5 frets above and 5 frets below. I'll have to think about this.
I have a song in my mind, and I want to play it on the guitar.
I know how scales are made (full and half steps), and I can recognize whether the next note is higher or lower in a song (not perfectly).
But I can't figure out which scale the song uses, or what are all the allowed notes in that particular song. And also, I don't know how to figure out how many notes higher or lower the next note is.
Please help me to understand and practice music.
Charan PaiCharan Pai22522 gold badges44 silver badges1111 bronze badges
5 Answers
Ok, so if you're looking to take a song on guitar and work out the key the easiest way is to look at the chords being played, and work out the key they all relate to.
If the song goes like this:
C, F, G, C
We can see the that these are the I, IV and V chords of C Major
I, IV, V, I
Or a different example:
Dm, G7, C
Is also C Major, with ii, V, I being the chords.
For a major key the chords will always be (from I to VII):
Major, Minor, Minor, Major, Major (Dominant 7), Minor, Minor b5, (Major at the root again)
If the song is a natural minor then this pattern still works, but it starts at the 6th, so in a minor the chords will be:
Minor, Minor b5, Major, Minor, Minor, Major, Major, (Minor at root again)
Be aware there may be key changes, and there are loads of potential scales to base their key off. These are the one I encounter the most.
So the basic idea is the take your list of chords, and figure out how they all fit into one of the above patterns. Once you get that you can read off what scale you are in.
There are all kind of reasons why using the melody itself may not be the best approach. Often it makes songs interesting to use modes and other tricks to play notes that shouldn't strictly fit. I'm not going to go into that now as that may be unecessary. As a bassist it's far more useful to have the chords, work out the key (or keys if it changes) and then go from there. Of course, some chords will fit into multiple keys.
This sort of practise is incredibly useful when improvising or writing your own material. Being able to take a set of chords and work out the key is something that is essential. By the sounds of it, looking at some interval ear training may be useful too - being able to tell the sound of a major 3rd or minor 3rd is useful.
Eventually, by listening to alot of songs it will get easier. What song was it you had in mind? If it is well known there will be tabs of it on the internet, so for the first few use those to help you. There's a few good books on guitar music theory too by Hal Leonard I would recommend if you want to get into this sort of thing.
Disclaimer - as music is very subjective there are almost always exceptions to rules. If you're looking at jazz or something similar then some crazy stuff will happen.
FolauFolau68311 gold badge66 silver badges1717 bronze badges
It looks like you're trying to figure out how to play a song by listening to it.
Unfortunately, there are few hard and fast rules, other than listening very carefully and trying to play the same thing. This is much harder than it seems at first glance! Like with many problems, though, what seems insurmountable at first can be broken down into simpler problems.
The scale of a song is more property called the key, the set of sharps or flats that are used by default when playing the song. It will usually have the same name as the first and the last chord played (although there are exceptions). As you've already guessed, the key will definitely help you determine notes of the melody! But note, that songs will usually also contain some notes outside of the scale.
If you've got a start, and are trying to figure out the rest, it can help to train specifically on accurately guessing intervals, i.e. how many notes higher or lower. Here are someexercises for that purpose; getting better is simply a matter of practice!
It may seem more difficult, but having at least a few of the song's chords will also help you find notes in the melody. The other answers have a lot of useful advice on this! Often, notes in the melody will be found in the chord that is currently being played, especially at the beginning of a phrase (although, like everything, there are exceptions). Of course, the vice versa is also true, and if you have some of the notes of the melody, you can use those to help you find the chords! And just like a jigsaw puzzle, the more pieces you have, the easier it is to place others.
I'd recommend starting with something dead simple, even a nursery song, that you don't already have sheet music for. Seriously, stuff like Twinkle Twinkle Little Star. It may seem silly, but these songs will usually have fewer left-field accidentals and tricky modulations.
You've jumped into the deep end of the pool - try to pick up as much musical theory as you can to bolster your understanding. Best of luck!
HanneleHannele
Now we know you're looking for chords, the answer is a little simpler.
To find the key chord, often it's the chord that starts the main verse, sometimes the chorus, and usually the last chord.Not easy if the tune fades at the end !
The bass part gives a great clue, so isolate the chord that you think is the important one mentioned above. Listen to the bass note, and find it on your 6th string. There's a very good chance that an E shaped chord on that fret will give the chord you're looking for.
Most songs will be diatonic, and use some chords from the main 6 found in that key. They will be -3 majors, I, IV and V, and 3 minors - ii, iii and vi. Namely, in C - C, F and G, Dm, Em and Am. When you've established the first chord,listen to where it changes into the next. If that one is major, then you've a 50/50 chance of guessing what it will be. E.g. 1st chord C maj. next, if also maj., will be either F or G. If the chord is minor, then the odds are 33% , as in Dm, Em or Am. This will cover 90% or more of the songs you need to transcribe, I hope, among the pop music of the last 50 or so years.
Obviously, more complex songs will use other chords, but, hey, we all have to start somewhere simple.
TimTim109k1111 gold badges107107 silver badges279279 bronze badges
Generally the first chord in a piece will start on either the tonic or the dominant. SO you will get a strong idea there. You will also look for any accedintals which may indicate whether the piece is in a minor key and most importantly you will look at the key signature which is there to give an indication of key.
Neil MeyerNeil Meyer10.4k33 gold badges2828 silver badges6161 bronze badges
You mention you're familiar with scales - can you play a scale on the guitar ?
A first step would be to find a scale 'shape' on the guitar with which you can play the song's melody (maybe not all - perhaps a verse). For example the good old Pentatonic Scale (or similar).
Once you've done that - let's say you identify it as a major scale in A - that gives you the key of the song.
From there when it comes to identifying chords : This question might help. .
As others have metioned there isn't really a hard and fast way of getting to grips with working out chords for yourself. Part of it comes with experience of recognising intervals within chords or changes from one chord to another. Music repeats itself a lot so you might (probably will) find a sequence from one song is very similar to something in another song. For example the song 'What's Up' byt 4 non blondes is the same fundamental sequence as 'high and Dry' by Radiohead- just a different key (probably) and the timing is a little different.
The more you spot this, the better you get at it as you build your own internal 'library' or recognisable changes.
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I've long had this question. I know some music theory, but I can only get a vague idea as to the progression of keys when moving the capo down a guitar's neck. I'm fairly certain that the guitar is in the key of E minor when no capo is used, but that may be wrong. When playing some songs, the instructions for capo position aren't something like 'Capo on fret 3', but, instead, 'Capo: C Major' or 'Key: C Major'. I've tried to find a description of this online, but the closest things that I've been able to find are descriptions of how to transpose chords to different keys. Any help is appreciated, and I wouldn't be surprised if I had some gross conceptual error.
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mckryallmckryall
2 Answers
The capo allows you to play a song in a particular key using chord shapes and formations from a different key. For example if you like to use the open (first position) chords in the key of G major such as G, C, D, Em and Am but want to sing a song in the key of A, you can put a capo on the second fret and play the chords as if you were playing in the key of G.
So when you play a G chord with the capo on the 2nd fret, it will actually be an A chord. It will look like a G chord but sound like an A chord.
To determine what key you will be playing in based on a given capo position, take the key corresponding to the chord shapes you want to play and then add a semitone or half step for each fret position. Note that there is only a half step or one semi-tone between E and F and between B and C.
So if you play chords from the G set and you put the Capo on the 1st fret - you take G and add one half step (one semi-tone). G plus a semitone = Ab or G# (same note on a guitar). If capo goes on second fret add two semitones - G plus 2 semitones = A. So playing a G chord formation with the capo on second fret, gives you a chord that sounds like (and technically is) an A chord. With capo on third fret - if you play chords for key of G - take G and add 3 semitones and you get Bb or A#. G-(+1Ab)-(+2A)-(+3 = Bb).
If you put the capo on the first fret and play chords as if in the key of C (such as C, F & G) you take C and add 1 semitone and get C# or Db (same note - two different names depending on the frame of reference). If the capo is on 2nd fret and you play a C chord it will sound as (and technically be) a D chord. C plus 1 semitone = C# - C plus 2 semitones (capo on 2nd fret) = D.
This formula will work for any capo position and any chord set.Another way to approach using a capo to transpose is to first decide what chord set you want to use. Then decide what key you want the song to be in. Then count the semitones between the two keys and that will tell you the fret to put the capo on. So if you want to play chords that are in G but want the song to be in the key of A - start with G (the root of the key of G that you want to play the chord formations from) and count to A in an ascending direction - and you get two. G-(+1G#)-(+2 = A).
Sometimes you will find that this approach puts your capo on a fret too close to the body to play comfortably. For example - if you wanted to use G shaped chords to play in the key of E you would go G-G#(1)-A(2)-A#(3)-B(4)-C(5)-C#(6)-D(7)-D#(8) - E = 9th fret.
Ninth fret leaves very little room to maneuver so you could look at alternative chord sets (if for some reason you did not want to play the chords from the E set of chords). For example - it's easy to see that the distance between D and E is much closer than between G and E. So if we want to play chords from the D set but play in the key of E - we start with D and count the steps to E and we get 2 so we put the capo on the 2nd fret and play a D chord and it comes out as an E chord. D plus two semitones equals E.
One easy way to calculate this if you have a piano keyboard (or picture of one) handy, is to start with the key that corresponds to the chord set you want to play and start going up the piano keys until you get to the key you want to play in. The number of keys you count in order (black and white keys) ending with the key you want the song to sound in - gives you the capo position.
Or if you don't want to do all the counting, just print this chart.
Rockin CowboyRockin Cowboy21k1414 gold badges5151 silver badges143143 bronze badges
It doesn't quite work like that. The guitar doesn't exactly have a single key that its 'in'. Instead it has chords that are easier and more difficult to play. Some relatively easy ones (sticking with just major chords) include C, G, D, A, and E, which allows you to play in quite a few different keys. If you were playing in the key of D, you'd likely see a lot of G, D, and A chords. If you were playing in A, you'd probably see a lot of D, A, and E chords. Add a few more chords in there, along with minors and sevenths, and you can get quite a range of potential keys, even without using a capo.
What a capo does is transpose up whatever you play by a certain number of half steps, equal to the number of the fret the capo is on.
So, for example, a capo on the first fret will make all chords one half step higher. A G chord becomes an A♭, and A chord becomes a B♭, and E chord becomes an F, and etc... If you place a capo on the second fret, they all get transposed up by two half steps. So your G and A chords would become A and B chords, respectively.
Notice the redundancy: you can still play an A chord, but you have to finger it as a G chord. This can get quickly get confusing if you're not used to thinking that way (or even if you are), so when a piece is to be capo'd, the written chords are are the shape that you finger, not what the chord actually sounds like after being transposed by the capo.
As an example, lets say that you want to play a piece in C major, and you know what the actual chords are. It probably has a lot of F's, C's, and G's in it. This is playable without a capo, although the F is a difficult barre chord. What you can do, is play it in a lower key (so we have to count down backwards), and then use the capo to transpose everything up. In this case, if you were to use a capo on the first fret, you'd have to play E, B, and F&sharp, which is more difficult. At the second fret, you'd have to play an E♭, B♭, and F, which are terrible guitar chords. At the third fret, you get to play D, A, and E, which are all easy guitar chords. So you could transpose the written-down chords to A, and then use a capo to transpose the actual pitches back up to C. But this doesn't mean that the third fret 'corresponds to' the key of C. It's just the chords you play in the key of A are significantly easier to play than the chords in C, and A is three half steps below C.
I hope that all made sense...
Caleb HinesCaleb Hines16.6k11 gold badge3434 silver badges9090 bronze badges
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